Both great ideas, both will work well and have been on my mind. I think I have to reintroduce the lime green too. I was thinking of adding some red too.The mood of this painting has really changed.
It's always nice to have a few paintings going so that you don't feel the need to finish anything, or everything.
That's not very 'art-reinforcement' of Denis to say. Burn it if it's a part of the creative process for you, but otherwise there is no "too far" (unless maybe you're out of plywood and sparkles). Everything adds to the richness and texture of what this will become (or IS).
According to art reinforcement principles, burning the piece is also a possible end, or idea. The 'too far' comment I think is misguided. It's like saying overworked, or too busy. It's a negativism.
But hey, what I want is opinions and ideas. Burning it might be fun, not very fun for the environment, but maybe I can compensate by not using my car for a month.
What interests me here is imagine if a painter only ever did one painting. Always working on the same painting, repainting, painting over. It would be just as valid as any other art practise. Not a good idea if you're selling your art for a living though.
I think that good contemporary art is a about an idea, a statement, a display of thought or emotion. When you work on a painting for too long you tend to loose the point and it becomes just that, a painting; an exercise is colour, contast, texture, bla, bla, bla.... just no my thing is all!
P.S. I was just kidding about the burning, I know James only burns other peoples work.
I'd argue that this painting isn't contemporary art(of today). I think most landscape painting and abstract painting doesn't have to be about anything other than those exercises that Denis is dismissing, which are in fact the things which art has been about about since the beginning. The whole idea that contemporary art is superior to more crafty pursuits is incorrect. But, chacun son gout, eh?
But....I love the feedback, I think this dialogue is an interesting one. I also think that this little painting will sell for lots of $$$, especially once I 'overwork' it some more. I know the demographic that will buy this painting, and they aren't the same people who buy upside down urinals.
I think good art can be anything, including an overworked painting. The word 'contemporary' bugs me because it doesn't really mean anything. It pretends to mean new or different, but is it really?
"good contemporary art" - is that what we should be aspiring to ? someone please fill me in on the definitive criteria for that ! i'm joking, i don't believe there is a definitive criteria for that, or at least not one that's worth paying attention to. but feel free to share your opinions if you think you're qualified ! please also share what your qualifications are. joking.
instead of holding ourselves up to that vague and somewhat terrifying notion i think it might be a better plan to just aspire to develop our own voice, however that fits into the universe of art past present and future. i think we should all be trying to align our work with own unique voice, experimenting along the way in whatever way we're inspired to.
here's the meaning i take from the robert bresson quote "make visible what, without you, might never have been seen." - we all have our own unique visuals to offer and they all have a place, whether or not they're considered "good contemporary art" by some special person. and our visuals are valuable regardless of how they're assessed by critics because they're an expression of our own creative spirit. the creative spirit is the divine spark in each of us, so the more the merrier.
i think it's especially important not to allow vague and unfocussed criticisms to deter us from following our creative intuitions. we're all evolving, and we can trust the flow of life to provide us with inspiration about what to try next. as long as we're paying attention to that flow, and incorporating what we learn into what we're working on, we'll find our innovations and improvements. our best work might come from that process, if we focus on it for a few decades.
the best kind of criticism offers a way forward, something that gives an "aha!" and an exciting idea about what to try next. it's very easy to offer a casually dismissive remark - it's a far more difficult thing to try to suss out what needs to happen in a painting of a very different style and method than your own.
there are many "statements" made by any kind of work. overworked or underworked, simplistic or convoluted, technical or naive - all of these qualities can be described and meta-analysed in dry language by curator and critic types of various status and stripe, should they be interested.
Or a couple of my favorites, "contrived" or "garish".
Que (above) does an excellent job investigating this exchange of ideas, and I agreed with everything I read.
Just for kicks I'd like to add something.
In this case James does ask "How would you finish it?" and so I think Denis not criticizing so much as answering the question.
And if it is so foreign from his own art-politics (aesthetic, conceptual)decisions he thinkts he would feel compelled to burn it, I understand. I have talked to Denis before about his dislike for painting , and while it frustrates me, and makes me want to pinch him really hard I try not to get upset (which is not easy, because really, how can you NOT like painting)!
I shouldn't talk. Carlos called me an art bigot for my comments about other peoples art. Truth is I have strong prejudices, and can tend to be harsh (hopefully not when other sensitive artists types are around, I don't want to hurt feewings).
I can't help having opinions after looking and thinking about art my whole life. I've learned to try to be more careful when speaking about my own prejudices or art-politics (and have had some mishaps, including ones with James =P). I know it is important for me to have certain preferences with visual art, and likely for Denis too (even though clearly he is wrong and I am right, and that painting is superior to all other forms of art production with maybe the exception of sculpture and architecture on rare occasions, but definately better than wood cut-outs =).
PS:
By, "I know the demographic that will buy this painting, and they aren't the same people who buy upside down urinals". Are you suggesting there is an upside down urinal buying demographic?!
ha! nice, bluey. first you liked the blue one, now you like the green one. way to take the piss out of the pissing contest.
everyone feel better now? group hug?
anyway, it's good to see a little bit of fire (no pun intended) on this old rusty blog again. makes it feel alive.
and good pts, KY. all of 'em. i hear you and cara are now chums?
and p.s. i like the cut of yr jib... yep. the very criticism you speak of is the one i've long aspired to. in my own practice as a (shudder) critic, i try to bring that exact kind of forward thinking you talk about-- more than just "it's good or bad", but a "here's what might be next", or, "here's what this might lead you to think of".
in my day, i certainly wrote about some art i didn't necessarily like, but tried to bring that exact view to it regardless.
rather than being dismissive (which I don't think denis was being, btw), good criticism (from friend, stranger, or foe) should seek to answer what our favourite teacher ms. zurzolo defines as the "so what?" question.
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16 comments:
AT it's 27th moment of possible completion, this one will eventually become purely abstract.
How would you finish it?
Turn it 90 degrees clockwise and add a bit of orange.
i like it ! i say go 110% abstract
Both great ideas, both will work well and have been on my mind. I think I have to reintroduce the lime green too. I was thinking of adding some red too.The mood of this painting has really changed.
It's always nice to have a few paintings going so that you don't feel the need to finish anything, or everything.
I would burn it.
You have already gone too far.
That's not very 'art-reinforcement' of Denis to say. Burn it if it's a part of the creative process for you, but otherwise there is no "too far" (unless maybe you're out of plywood and sparkles). Everything adds to the richness and texture of what this will become (or IS).
I like the blue one
According to art reinforcement principles, burning the piece is also a possible end, or idea. The 'too far' comment I think is misguided. It's like saying overworked, or too busy. It's a negativism.
But hey, what I want is opinions and ideas. Burning it might be fun, not very fun for the environment, but maybe I can compensate by not using my car for a month.
What interests me here is imagine if a painter only ever did one painting. Always working on the same painting, repainting, painting over. It would be just as valid as any other art practise. Not a good idea if you're selling your art for a living though.
I think that good contemporary art is a about an idea, a statement, a display of thought or emotion. When you work on a painting for too long you tend to loose the point and it becomes just that, a painting; an exercise is colour, contast, texture, bla, bla, bla.... just no my thing is all!
P.S. I was just kidding about the burning, I know James only burns other peoples work.
Ouch! And Denis only likes to burn others.
I'd argue that this painting isn't contemporary art(of today). I think most landscape painting and abstract painting doesn't have to be about anything other than those exercises that Denis is dismissing, which are in fact the things which art has been about about since the beginning. The whole idea that contemporary art is superior to more crafty pursuits is incorrect. But, chacun son gout, eh?
But....I love the feedback, I think this dialogue is an interesting one.
I also think that this little painting will sell for lots of $$$, especially once I 'overwork' it some more. I know the demographic that will buy this painting, and they aren't the same people who buy upside down urinals.
I think good art can be anything, including an overworked painting. The word 'contemporary' bugs me because it doesn't really mean anything. It pretends to mean new or different, but is it really?
"good contemporary art" - is that what we should be aspiring to ? someone please fill me in on the definitive criteria for that ! i'm joking, i don't believe there is a definitive criteria for that, or at least not one that's worth paying attention to. but feel free to share your opinions if you think you're qualified ! please also share what your qualifications are. joking.
instead of holding ourselves up to that vague and somewhat terrifying notion i think it might be a better plan to just aspire to develop our own voice, however that fits into the universe of art past present and future. i think we should all be trying to align our work with own unique voice, experimenting along the way in whatever way we're inspired to.
here's the meaning i take from the robert bresson quote "make visible what, without you, might never have been seen." - we all have our own unique visuals to offer and they all have a place, whether or not they're considered "good contemporary art" by some special person. and our visuals are valuable regardless of how they're assessed by critics because they're an expression of our own creative spirit. the creative spirit is the divine spark in each of us, so the more the merrier.
i think it's especially important not to allow vague and unfocussed criticisms to deter us from following our creative intuitions. we're all evolving, and we can trust the flow of life to provide us with inspiration about what to try next. as long as we're paying attention to that flow, and incorporating what we learn into what we're working on, we'll find our innovations and improvements. our best work might come from that process, if we focus on it for a few decades.
the best kind of criticism offers a way forward, something that gives an "aha!" and an exciting idea about what to try next. it's very easy to offer a casually dismissive remark - it's a far more difficult thing to try to suss out what needs to happen in a painting of a very different style and method than your own.
there are many "statements" made by any kind of work. overworked or underworked, simplistic or convoluted, technical or naive - all of these qualities can be described and meta-analysed in dry language by curator and critic types of various status and stripe, should they be interested.
Or a couple of my favorites, "contrived" or "garish".
Que (above) does an excellent job investigating this exchange of ideas, and I agreed with everything I read.
Just for kicks I'd like to add something.
In this case James does ask "How would you finish it?" and so I think Denis not criticizing so much as answering the question.
And if it is so foreign from his own art-politics (aesthetic, conceptual)decisions he thinkts he would feel compelled to burn it, I understand. I have talked to Denis before about his dislike for painting , and while it frustrates me, and makes me want to pinch him really hard I try not to get upset (which is not easy, because really, how can you NOT like painting)!
I shouldn't talk. Carlos called me an art bigot for my comments about other peoples art. Truth is I have strong prejudices, and can tend to be harsh (hopefully not when other sensitive artists types are around, I don't want to hurt feewings).
I can't help having opinions after looking and thinking about art my whole life. I've learned to try to be more careful when speaking about my own prejudices or art-politics (and have had some mishaps, including ones with James =P). I know it is important for me to have certain preferences with visual art, and likely for Denis too (even though clearly he is wrong and I am right, and that painting is superior to all other forms of art production with maybe the exception of sculpture and architecture on rare occasions, but definately better than wood cut-outs =).
PS:
By, "I know the demographic that will buy this painting, and they aren't the same people who buy upside down urinals". Are you suggesting there is an upside down urinal buying demographic?!
Shit yeah!
I like the green one.
ha! nice, bluey. first you liked the blue one, now you like the green one. way to take the piss out of the pissing contest.
everyone feel better now? group hug?
anyway, it's good to see a little bit of fire (no pun intended) on this old rusty blog again. makes it feel alive.
and good pts, KY. all of 'em.
i hear you and cara are now chums?
and p.s. i like the cut of yr jib... yep. the very criticism you speak of is the one i've long aspired to. in my own practice as a (shudder) critic, i try to bring that exact kind of forward thinking you talk about-- more than just "it's good or bad", but a "here's what might be next", or, "here's what this might lead you to think of".
in my day, i certainly wrote about some art i didn't necessarily like, but tried to bring that exact view to it regardless.
rather than being dismissive (which I don't think denis was being, btw), good criticism (from friend, stranger, or foe) should seek to answer what our favourite teacher ms. zurzolo defines as the "so what?" question.
whew...
i have to agree, when I saw 15 comments my little heart leapt.
wolfie has already included me in the conversation, so yes, the question from me is "so what?"
but i think that may have already been answered.
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