None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -Goethe
18 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Nice.
Yet I generally believe that no one is free.
Tied to responsibilities of all kinds, some ravenous, some a pleasure.
Freedom I think was invented by those wishing power over others. That may sounds stupid, but really, what a better way than telling someone that they are 'free' under your system of governance than some other.
I also think the ontology of the world, i.e., stratification, makes it such that freedom is impossible.
Simply put, I think there is responsibility and irresponsibility.
'Freedom' comes in when responsibilities are attended to 'responsibly,' i.e., morally, nicely, kindly, et cetera, meaning that one feels the most 'free' when they are doing good works.
Freedom is about personal choice. Freedom is being unrestrained.
Responsibility is more a social force, I'd argue that freedom is an internal struggle.
BUt you have the freedom to your opinion c-wrong...:)hehehe
CBC radio had a thing on a person who could only shop from flyers, and the struggle she had shopping for food, it was very interesting, her struggling with this internal turmoil.
1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint: He won his freedom after a retrial. 2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc. 3. the power to determine action without restraint. 4. political or national independence. 5. personal liberty, as opposed to bondage or slavery: a slave who bought his freedom. 6. exemption from the presence of anything specified (usually fol. by from): freedom from fear. 7. the absence of or release from ties, obligations, etc. 8. ease or facility of movement or action: to enjoy the freedom of living in the country. 9. frankness of manner or speech. 10. general exemption or immunity: freedom from taxation. 11. the absence of ceremony or reserve. 12. a liberty taken. 13. a particular immunity or privilege enjoyed, as by a city or corporation: freedom to levy taxes. 14. civil liberty, as opposed to subjection to an arbitrary or despotic government. 15. the right to enjoy all the privileges or special rights of citizenship, membership, etc., in a community or the like. 16. the right to frequent, enjoy, or use at will: to have the freedom of a friend's library. 17. Philosophy. the power to exercise choice and make decisions without constraint from within or without; autonomy; self-determination. Compare necessity (def. 7).
1. Something the American people just think they have
2. Being able to make choices. Performing an action of your own choosing. Freedom will always be relative to the environment/situation which you inhabit.
3. An attribute strongly sought by America.
4. Feeling a breeze against one's c*** and b***s.
5. A substitute for "French" in any context.
6. adj. largely meaningless trash word which is addended to other words so as to veil or distort their true meanings. Had previously great value; associated strongly with liberty, progress, and rationality in the past. Momentum of previous usage allows this word to be tossed around for the purpose of distracting or disarming listeners just before you try and pull a verbal fast one.
7. One who has freedom has the ability to do what he or she pleases without being stopped or hindered by a seperate power.
Interesting. The dude in the picture needs some freedom from the fashion of his jacket and shirt.
What intrigued me about this quote was that someone might not be free, yet think they are. If there is truly no such thing, then the fight is hopeless and/or ongoing.
What about the freedom in Buddhism? Or the freedom of death?
And actually, if there is no such thing as freedom, those people who perceive it might be onto something. Maybe they aren't enslaved at all, maybe they are the free-est of the non-free.
I think that if literally taken, this guy might have some credibility (were it not for his abominable sense of style). However, having such a concrete view on such a fluid concept like freedom makes me think that his mom just spanked him too much when he was little.
Poor Goethe, did his mom choose his outfit for this portrait?
None taken, you're right. I am a total moma's boy, and yes she did dress me. Still my experiences are within the gloriously diverse range of human kind, no different than your's, or C-dog's in that sense. I guess the fact that there are still images of me 400 years later says something. I am recognized as a literary master ya'know.
You may recognize some of my work. Perhaps this one...
Prometheus
COVER thy spacious heavens, Zeus, With clouds of mist, And, like the boy who lops The thistles' heads, Disport with oaks and mountain-peaks, Yet thou must leave My earth still standing; My cottage too, which was not raised by thee; Leave me my hearth, Whose kindly glow By thee is envied.
I know nought poorer Under the sun, than ye gods! Ye nourish painfully, With sacrifices And votive prayers, Your majesty: Ye would e'en starve, If children and beggars Were not trusting fools.
While yet a child And ignorant of life, I turned my wandering gaze Up tow'rd the sun, as if with him There were an ear to hear my wailings, A heart, like mine, To feel compassion for distress.
Who help'd me Against the Titans' insolence? Who rescued me from certain death, From slavery? Didst thou not do all this thyself, My sacred glowing heart? And glowedst, young and good, Deceived with grateful thanks To yonder slumbering one?
I honour thee! and why? Hast thou e'er lighten'd the sorrows Of the heavy laden? Hast thou e'er dried up the tears Of the anguish-stricken? Was I not fashion'd to be a man By omnipotent Time, And by eternal Fate, Masters of me and thee?
Didst thou e'er fancy That life I should learn to hate, And fly to deserts, Because not all My blossoming dreams grew ripe?
Here sit I, forming mortals After my image; A race resembling me, To suffer, to weep, To enjoy, to be glad, And thee to scorn, As I!
Goethe is a fine man, and really, if The Sorrows of Young Werther taught me anything, it's that some woman indeed f-cked Goethe up, and that opens the door to the possibility that it was his mom.
freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
heh.
now, conceptually, freedom does exist. and despite what the dictionary says (since dictionaries, after all, are not dropped from heaven, but are written by *people*, just like us, equally imbued with prejudices and misunderstandings), i will go with the "it doesn't truly exist" concept.
and by that, i mean (to lossely quote j. edward demming):
you do not have to change (or eat, or drink water, or sleep, or earn money, or whatever). Survival is not mandatory.
so, if nothing else, we are un-free b/c the very "law of life" demands a certain amount of servitude from us.
guess it's like sky said: freedom FROM vs. freedom TO.
and lay off goethe. i like his style. he's got that whole byron thing going.
Interesting the discussion above was so focused on the word "freedom". Getting into a discussion of that is a distraction from the two more powerful words in the sentence "hopelessly enslaved". By asking the question What am I enslaved to? We will begin to recognize the illusion of the freedom we claim only when we acknowledge the reality of our slavery. Until then it is indeed hopeless.
A Love for Art was a collaborative blog for visual artists, musicians, writers, and social scientists. This blog has evolved into a new blog called BETA, go check it out!
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18 comments:
Nice.
Yet I generally believe that no one is free.
Tied to responsibilities of all kinds, some ravenous, some a pleasure.
Freedom I think was invented by those wishing power over others. That may sounds stupid, but really, what a better way than telling someone that they are 'free' under your system of governance than some other.
I also think the ontology of the world, i.e., stratification, makes it such that freedom is impossible.
Simply put, I think there is responsibility and irresponsibility.
'Freedom' comes in when responsibilities are attended to 'responsibly,' i.e., morally, nicely, kindly, et cetera, meaning that one feels the most 'free' when they are doing good works.
Maybe....Not.
Freedom is about personal choice. Freedom is being unrestrained.
Responsibility is more a social force, I'd argue that freedom is an internal struggle.
BUt you have the freedom to your opinion c-wrong...:)hehehe
CBC radio had a thing on a person who could only shop from flyers, and the struggle she had shopping for food, it was very interesting, her struggling with this internal turmoil.
Life is a relational phenomenon, you cannot escape being tied to other things, whether people, animals, or the environment (read responsibility).
So choice really does not address anything in particular, it just points to the fact that one can choose what they want to be tied to.
Again, freedom is a misnomer, i.e., it is a word that does not describe the true nature of our state of affairs.
Freedom cannot be defined in a vacuum. Freedom FROM, freedom TO ... these are valid, I think.
1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint: He won his freedom after a retrial.
2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.
3. the power to determine action without restraint.
4. political or national independence.
5. personal liberty, as opposed to bondage or slavery: a slave who bought his freedom.
6. exemption from the presence of anything specified (usually fol. by from): freedom from fear.
7. the absence of or release from ties, obligations, etc.
8. ease or facility of movement or action: to enjoy the freedom of living in the country.
9. frankness of manner or speech.
10. general exemption or immunity: freedom from taxation.
11. the absence of ceremony or reserve.
12. a liberty taken.
13. a particular immunity or privilege enjoyed, as by a city or corporation: freedom to levy taxes.
14. civil liberty, as opposed to subjection to an arbitrary or despotic government.
15. the right to enjoy all the privileges or special rights of citizenship, membership, etc., in a community or the like.
16. the right to frequent, enjoy, or use at will: to have the freedom of a friend's library.
17. Philosophy. the power to exercise choice and make decisions without constraint from within or without; autonomy; self-determination. Compare necessity (def. 7).
freedom:
1. Something the American people just think they have
2. Being able to make choices. Performing an action of your own choosing. Freedom will always be relative to the environment/situation which you inhabit.
3. An attribute strongly sought by America.
4. Feeling a breeze against one's c*** and b***s.
5. A substitute for "French" in any context.
6. adj. largely meaningless trash word which is addended to other words so as to veil or distort their true meanings. Had previously great value; associated strongly with liberty, progress, and rationality in the past. Momentum of previous usage allows this word to be tossed around for the purpose of distracting or disarming listeners just before you try and pull a verbal fast one.
7. One who has freedom has the ability to do what he or she pleases without being stopped or hindered by a seperate power.
Interesting. The dude in the picture needs some freedom from the fashion of his jacket and shirt.
What intrigued me about this quote was that someone might not be free, yet think they are. If there is truly no such thing, then the fight is hopeless and/or ongoing.
What about the freedom in Buddhism? Or the freedom of death?
Just an interesting thing to mull over.
And actually, if there is no such thing as freedom, those people who perceive it might be onto something. Maybe they aren't enslaved at all, maybe they are the free-est of the non-free.
Sorry, I'll stop now.
I think that if literally taken, this guy might have some credibility (were it not for his abominable sense of style).
However, having such a concrete view on such a fluid concept like freedom makes me think that his mom just spanked him too much when he was little.
Poor Goethe, did his mom choose his outfit for this portrait?
Freedom from MMMOOOOMMMM!!!!
exactly, he's obviously a momma's boy.
no offense Goethe.
None taken, you're right. I am a total moma's boy, and yes she did dress me. Still my experiences are within the gloriously diverse range of human kind, no different than your's, or C-dog's in that sense. I guess the fact that there are still images of me 400 years later says something. I am recognized as a literary master ya'know.
You may recognize some of my work. Perhaps this one...
Prometheus
COVER thy spacious heavens, Zeus,
With clouds of mist,
And, like the boy who lops
The thistles' heads,
Disport with oaks and mountain-peaks,
Yet thou must leave
My earth still standing;
My cottage too, which was not raised by thee;
Leave me my hearth,
Whose kindly glow
By thee is envied.
I know nought poorer
Under the sun, than ye gods!
Ye nourish painfully,
With sacrifices
And votive prayers,
Your majesty:
Ye would e'en starve,
If children and beggars
Were not trusting fools.
While yet a child
And ignorant of life,
I turned my wandering gaze
Up tow'rd the sun, as if with him
There were an ear to hear my wailings,
A heart, like mine,
To feel compassion for distress.
Who help'd me
Against the Titans' insolence?
Who rescued me from certain death,
From slavery?
Didst thou not do all this thyself,
My sacred glowing heart?
And glowedst, young and good,
Deceived with grateful thanks
To yonder slumbering one?
I honour thee! and why?
Hast thou e'er lighten'd the sorrows
Of the heavy laden?
Hast thou e'er dried up the tears
Of the anguish-stricken?
Was I not fashion'd to be a man
By omnipotent Time,
And by eternal Fate,
Masters of me and thee?
Didst thou e'er fancy
That life I should learn to hate,
And fly to deserts,
Because not all
My blossoming dreams grew ripe?
Here sit I, forming mortals
After my image;
A race resembling me,
To suffer, to weep,
To enjoy, to be glad,
And thee to scorn,
As I!
Goethe is a fine man, and really, if The Sorrows of Young Werther taught me anything, it's that some woman indeed f-cked Goethe up, and that opens the door to the possibility that it was his mom.
Poor Goethe, a potential momma's boy.
freedom's just another word for
nothing left to lose.
heh.
now, conceptually, freedom does exist. and despite what the dictionary says (since dictionaries, after all, are not dropped from heaven, but are written by *people*, just like us, equally imbued with prejudices and misunderstandings), i will go with the "it doesn't truly exist" concept.
and by that, i mean (to lossely quote j. edward demming):
you do not have to change (or eat, or drink water, or sleep, or earn money, or whatever). Survival is not mandatory.
so, if nothing else, we are un-free b/c the very "law of life" demands a certain amount of servitude from us.
guess it's like sky said: freedom FROM vs. freedom TO.
and lay off goethe. i like his style. he's got that whole byron thing going.
painted 1828 by Joseph Karl Stieler.
Interesting the discussion above was so focused on the word "freedom". Getting into a discussion of that is a distraction from the two more powerful words in the sentence "hopelessly enslaved". By asking the question What am I enslaved to? We will begin to recognize the illusion of the freedom we claim only when we acknowledge the reality of our slavery. Until then it is indeed hopeless.
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