Wolfie, I just don't get it. If this makes you sad, and you're vegan, how do you go about your day? I'm not being an ass, it's a valid ?-ion. I look foward to your response.....
well... i'm not quite vegan. veg as all hell, though. :)
and i go through my days w/ a healthy load of post-christian guilt and a frantic desire to do as little harm in the world as possible. of course, i'm usually only half-successful.
sometime during my ten years of tree planting, i began to see every living thing (including rocks, too, i guess) as having as much of a "soul" as me, and having as much right to live as me. and once you start, it only gets worse/better. i try not to kill any bugs, even, since they only got one little life.
if/when i do have to kill something (a bunch of plants, for e.g., to set up my tent on top of them) i usually try to explain to them why i have to do this, and apologize, and thank them.
i know. i know. i'm shaking my own head.
:)
p.s. how many trees does one editon of the FP use, i wonder?
uh, you're pretty weird but your respect for the earth is one of the things I admire most about you. (that and your ability to parent such well behaved cats) ;)
the other day Olivia made up a song about feeling sorry for the "fishes", and one line of the song was "why can't nature just stay alive?"
I think it's one way of responding to your world, I guess another is seeing everything as under your dominion.
So, "it's not easy being green". I wonder where we fit in the food cycle, or were meant to fit in. i can't help but think of that Simpsons map where everything points to the human. I truly believe that we don't fit in this planet. We stick out like a sore thumb. I think somebody dropped us off, and drove away really fast!
Ya, we are totally aliens in a basket left on the doorstep of planet earth.
Why can't nature stay alive? It does, just in a cyclical fashion. I always liked that part in some shakespeare play where they talk about eating the fish that ate the worm that fed on the king.
As for me, my favorite part of Wolfy's weirdness is definately the cat relationship. You won't catch me apologizing to grass (as much as I appreciate it) or sparing the life of a mosquito (in fact I pride myself for my ability to slay them efficiently), but I can understand and respect a passionate conection to nature. As I'm sure some of you know, I love observing little critters and being submersed in the elements. Climb a tree, catch (and release) a frog, go for a swim in the brokenhead and watch the fishes, that's a great day for me. As for the vegetarian thing, if you recognize the soul of all things, then by that note a cow and lettuce are on equal footing maybe? Or do you have some kind of hierarchy? My friend once told me his rational behind consuming meat was that we were meant to. An apple is a bright colour, hangs low in a tree and is non poisonous. A cow is a relatively defenseless large slow moving animal that can feed a group of people. Still, I don't expect we were "meant" to have industrial beef processing ><. Well, that should about do it for my rambling. My apologies for anyone who actually read this. That's 1 minute you can't get back, I guess. Unless of course you make a time machine, or if someone else makes one and lets you use it, th elater being ideal, as then you won't need to spend the time to make it, and wow, really, what's wrong with me? I'm weird too I guess. Hey Wolfy, you wana start a club or something for people that don't have the appropriate filters for speaking in public forums and reveal their eccentricities (nicer way of saying weirdness)too easily?
I also wonder about the cycles of nature surviving against all odds (mostly human odds at this time), and where we can at least try to fit in and not as bluemask so succintly put it "stick out"...such good questions...maybe apologizing to grass is a first step.
and
If you are starting that "people who reveal their interior worlds" club I would like to join. :)
Life has an uncanny way of surviving. Some pretty harsh times have been had. for example...
Ancient Global Pollution
Oxygen only made up 1% of atmosphere when earth formed and by 1.8 bya made up 15% of atmosphere Many bacteria cannot live in the presence of oxygen, so this was considered massive pollution Organisms had to evolve biochemical methods to deal with this oxygen One of these methods, respiration, had the advantage of producing large amounts of energy for the cell.
First life was able to exist under the extremely harsh conditions. Some still exist today—hydrothermal vents. Evidence that these are the ancestors of ALL life forms today.
more here: http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:eNR80Ksj38wJ:www.memorial.ecasd.k12.wi.us/Departments/Science/nanderson/homepage/biology%252005-06/Evolution/Documents/Evolution.ppt+algae+pollution+oxygen+extinction&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ca
i just wanna know who the heck the cartoonist is!?!?! it looks very familiar!?! the cruel irony weighs heavy... *sigh* what a wonderful cartoon it is. ~go
I appreciate this cartoon and the discussion it's generated, good job Sky.
The way I see it the cartoon is a metaphor for the ever changing winds and tides of existence, and the delicious irony of it all. One day we are a tree, the next a crucial element in an implement used to destroy trees.
Man may or may not be a completely alien species compared to the rest of earth's creatures, but the fact remains that he is a part of evolution (or divine destiny if that is how you choose to see it).
Evolution itself is a very long drama in which humans are a recent, and perhaps brief, addition to the stage. I can sympathize with Wolfboy's sympathy vis a vis the souls of all living things(and apparently inanimate objects like rocks) but taken in a longer view the ultimate purpose of anything living or dead is not knowable to us, and it is a bit presumptuous (although admittedly entirely human) to ascribe our neophyte notions of purpose, and fear/awe of death (which is really just another change) to everything else on the planet.
I might even go so far as to posit, just for the sake of argument, that perhaps our destiny as Humans really is to fuck things up royally. Maybe it is our job to disturb our planet to such a degree that a completely new order is achieved. After all, it happened in the age of dinosaurs, and they didn't have any cars.
Thanks, Ry. I am glad this generated some discussion, I hadn't quite expected it to, but there you go.
My own view is live and let live. That goes for us humans too! We are what we are. If we feel that the natural world should be able to be what it is, then how are we not part of that ourselves, and why should we not be what we are?
I have a hard time sympathizing with the idea that we are 'meant to' be a certain way or do certain things.
I do, however, sympathize with the empathy for all life or non-life forms. That doesn't mean you don't do any harm - that's simply not possible anyways. It does mean that you recognize and are aware of the existence of other consciousnesses, minds, beings, souls or what have you, and your effect on them, for better or for worse. How you choose to carry out your life in that awareness is up to you, but I think that having that awareness is very important.
At one point I did consider becoming vegetarian on humanitarian grounds (and I was raised vegetarian for the first few years of my life), but I couldn't figure out what the basis was for deciding that animals were not ok to eat but plants were. If you study biology a little, you quickly see that things aren't so simple.
well, as a vegimite myself... let me give a very brief justification.
for me, it's not about scaling. cows aren't worth more than lettuce. for me, it's all about the disrespect i see in factory farming, in which intelligent social creatures are caged and injected with drugs, etc. that's where the choice came in for me-- of course doing no harm is impossible. so for me, i see veg-ism as a way of getting out of the cycle that keeps cows, pigs and chickens in serious misery.
i don't expect others to make that choice, nor do i judge them for their choices.
it's just that, for me, i recognize veg-ism as one way to step back from what i see as over-consumption.
i think our friend disclaimer touched on some of these ideas in his recent FP editorial, no?
also, as a final aside, i look at factory farming as pollutive and wasteful-- it consumes vast amounts of food, water, and farmland that could be better used for other purposes. and, it adds further pollution to the already strained water and land resources.
again--its just my view. i came to veg-ism late in life, due to some exceptional circumstances.
arugement seldom changes people's minds as effectively as experience.
I would agree with you completely on the overconsuming consumerism we live amongst here. I remember watching a documentary on some doctor who went on a year-long vacation/diet regimine because he was quite overweight himself. He said he began to casually observe overweight people and average/thin people to try and figure out if they behaved any differently. His conclusion was that thin people stop eating when they are full, overweight people just keep eating. I'm not slamming anyone with a weight problem! But it's an interesting observation that we often ignore the messages our bodies are telling us, instead falling into the traps our culture sets us up for.
Some really interesting perspectives on what humans are and could be.
it made me wonder about two things a) Do humans really make that big of an impact on the earth or is this an inflacted sense of importance (very human too) b) how we are unlike other mammals who don't (or not to my knowledge) make choices about how they treat the earth or how they will interact with other beings...lions eat gazelles, gazelles eat grass and you aren't likely going to find a carnivore gazelle or a vegetarian lion. Makes it "easier" in some ways to be a lion and harder to be human with respect to knowing what to do, and while I am not very attracted to "meant to" ideas or destiny (although I do see absolutes creep into my language, which scares me sometimes)
What does it mean to to be ourselves, I really like what sky said "If we feel that the natural world should be able to be what it is, then how are we not part of that ourselves, and why should we not be what we are" but that's trickier than it sounds. What are we in a landscape that is changing quickly and a cultural context that is quite isolating?
A Love for Art was a collaborative blog for visual artists, musicians, writers, and social scientists. This blog has evolved into a new blog called BETA, go check it out!
20 comments:
oh.
oh my.
i'm very sad right now.
how did they meet again?
Wolfie, I just don't get it. If this makes you sad, and you're vegan, how do you go about your day? I'm not being an ass, it's a valid ?-ion. I look foward to your response.....
well... i'm not quite vegan. veg as all hell, though. :)
and i go through my days w/ a healthy load of post-christian guilt and a frantic desire to do as little harm in the world as possible. of course, i'm usually only half-successful.
sometime during my ten years of tree planting, i began to see every living thing (including rocks, too, i guess) as having as much of a "soul" as me, and having as much right to live as me. and once you start, it only gets worse/better. i try not to kill any bugs, even, since they only got one little life.
if/when i do have to kill something (a bunch of plants, for e.g., to set up my tent on top of them) i usually try to explain to them why i have to do this, and apologize, and thank them.
i know. i know. i'm shaking my own head.
:)
p.s. how many trees does one editon of the FP use, i wonder?
p.s. i'm going to bed now, before i get any weird-er.
uh, you're pretty weird but your respect for the earth is one of the things I admire most about you.
(that and your ability to parent such well behaved cats)
;)
the other day Olivia made up a song about feeling sorry for the "fishes", and one line of the song was "why can't nature just stay alive?"
I think it's one way of responding to your world, I guess another is seeing everything as under your dominion.
wow. why can't nature just stay alive.
what a great, wise question.
So, "it's not easy being green". I wonder where we fit in the food cycle, or were meant to fit in. i can't help but think of that Simpsons map where everything points to the human.
I truly believe that we don't fit in this planet. We stick out like a sore thumb. I think somebody dropped us off, and drove away really fast!
Ya, we are totally aliens in a basket left on the doorstep of planet earth.
Why can't nature stay alive? It does, just in a cyclical fashion. I always liked that part in some shakespeare play where they talk about eating the fish that ate the worm that fed on the king.
As for me, my favorite part of Wolfy's weirdness is definately the cat relationship. You won't catch me apologizing to grass (as much as I appreciate it) or sparing the life of a mosquito (in fact I pride myself for my ability to slay them efficiently), but I can understand and respect a passionate conection to nature. As I'm sure some of you know, I love observing little critters and being submersed in the elements. Climb a tree, catch (and release) a frog, go for a swim in the brokenhead and watch the fishes, that's a great day for me. As for the vegetarian thing, if you recognize the soul of all things, then by that note a cow and lettuce are on equal footing maybe? Or do you have some kind of hierarchy? My friend once told me his rational behind consuming meat was that we were meant to. An apple is a bright colour, hangs low in a tree and is non poisonous. A cow is a relatively defenseless large slow moving animal that can feed a group of people. Still, I don't expect we were "meant" to have industrial beef processing ><. Well, that should about do it for my rambling. My apologies for anyone who actually read this. That's 1 minute you can't get back, I guess. Unless of course you make a time machine, or if someone else makes one and lets you use it, th elater being ideal, as then you won't need to spend the time to make it, and wow, really, what's wrong with me? I'm weird too I guess. Hey Wolfy, you wana start a club or something for people that don't have the appropriate filters for speaking in public forums and reveal their eccentricities (nicer way of saying weirdness)too easily?
I also wonder about the cycles of nature surviving against all odds (mostly human odds at this time), and where we can at least try to fit in and not as bluemask so succintly put it "stick out"...such good questions...maybe apologizing to grass is a first step.
and
If you are starting that "people who reveal their interior worlds" club I would like to join.
:)
Life has an uncanny way of surviving. Some pretty harsh times have been had. for example...
Ancient Global Pollution
Oxygen only made up 1% of atmosphere when earth formed and by 1.8 bya made up 15% of atmosphere
Many bacteria cannot live in the presence of oxygen, so this was considered massive pollution
Organisms had to evolve biochemical methods to deal with this oxygen
One of these methods, respiration, had the advantage of producing large amounts of energy for the cell.
First life was able to exist under the extremely harsh conditions.
Some still exist today—hydrothermal vents.
Evidence that these are the ancestors of ALL life forms today.
more here:
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:eNR80Ksj38wJ:www.memorial.ecasd.k12.wi.us/Departments/Science/nanderson/homepage/biology%252005-06/Evolution/Documents/Evolution.ppt+algae+pollution+oxygen+extinction&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ca
i just wanna know who the heck the cartoonist is!?!?! it looks very familiar!?! the cruel irony weighs heavy... *sigh* what a wonderful cartoon it is. ~go
no doubt.
best rant ever, macro.
That cartoon is from the Perry Bible Fellowship and it is the best cartoon going.
I appreciate this cartoon and the discussion it's generated, good job Sky.
The way I see it the cartoon is a metaphor for the ever changing winds and tides of existence, and the delicious irony of it all. One day we are a tree, the next a crucial element in an implement used to destroy trees.
Man may or may not be a completely alien species compared to the rest of earth's creatures, but the fact remains that he is a part of evolution (or divine destiny if that is how you choose to see it).
Evolution itself is a very long drama in which humans are a recent, and perhaps brief, addition to the stage. I can sympathize with Wolfboy's sympathy vis a vis the souls of all living things(and apparently inanimate objects like rocks) but taken in a longer view the ultimate purpose of anything living or dead is not knowable to us, and it is a bit presumptuous (although admittedly entirely human) to ascribe our neophyte notions of purpose, and fear/awe of death (which is really just another change) to everything else on the planet.
I might even go so far as to posit, just for the sake of argument, that perhaps our destiny as Humans really is to fuck things up royally. Maybe it is our job to disturb our planet to such a degree that a completely new order is achieved. After all, it happened in the age of dinosaurs, and they didn't have any cars.
In short: Vive la firewood, Vive la beefsteak!
Thanks, Ry. I am glad this generated some discussion, I hadn't quite expected it to, but there you go.
My own view is live and let live. That goes for us humans too! We are what we are. If we feel that the natural world should be able to be what it is, then how are we not part of that ourselves, and why should we not be what we are?
I have a hard time sympathizing with the idea that we are 'meant to' be a certain way or do certain things.
I do, however, sympathize with the empathy for all life or non-life forms. That doesn't mean you don't do any harm - that's simply not possible anyways. It does mean that you recognize and are aware of the existence of other consciousnesses, minds, beings, souls or what have you, and your effect on them, for better or for worse. How you choose to carry out your life in that awareness is up to you, but I think that having that awareness is very important.
At one point I did consider becoming vegetarian on humanitarian grounds (and I was raised vegetarian for the first few years of my life), but I couldn't figure out what the basis was for deciding that animals were not ok to eat but plants were. If you study biology a little, you quickly see that things aren't so simple.
I wrote this long, and interesting response, but for some reason it never appeared. ugh. I'm sorry Rudy.
heh.
well, as a vegimite myself... let me give a very brief justification.
for me, it's not about scaling. cows aren't worth more than lettuce. for me, it's all about the disrespect i see in factory farming, in which intelligent social creatures are caged and injected with drugs, etc. that's where the choice came in for me-- of course doing no harm is impossible. so for me, i see veg-ism as a way of getting out of the cycle that keeps cows, pigs and chickens in serious misery.
i don't expect others to make that choice, nor do i judge them for their choices.
it's just that, for me, i recognize veg-ism as one way to step back from what i see as over-consumption.
i think our friend disclaimer touched on some of these ideas in his recent FP editorial, no?
also, as a final aside, i look at factory farming as pollutive and wasteful-- it consumes vast amounts of food, water, and farmland that could be better used for other purposes. and, it adds further pollution to the already strained water and land resources.
again--its just my view. i came to veg-ism late in life, due to some exceptional circumstances.
arugement seldom changes people's minds as effectively as experience.
I would agree with you completely on the overconsuming consumerism we live amongst here. I remember watching a documentary on some doctor who went on a year-long vacation/diet regimine because he was quite overweight himself. He said he began to casually observe overweight people and average/thin people to try and figure out if they behaved any differently. His conclusion was that thin people stop eating when they are full, overweight people just keep eating. I'm not slamming anyone with a weight problem! But it's an interesting observation that we often ignore the messages our bodies are telling us, instead falling into the traps our culture sets us up for.
I'm going to try and not eat too much today.
Some really interesting perspectives on what humans are and could be.
it made me wonder about two things a) Do humans really make that big of an impact on the earth or is this an inflacted sense of importance (very human too) b) how we are unlike other mammals who don't (or not to my knowledge) make choices about how they treat the earth or how they will interact with other beings...lions eat gazelles, gazelles eat grass and you aren't likely going to find a carnivore gazelle or a vegetarian lion. Makes it "easier" in some ways to be a lion and harder to be human with respect to knowing what to do, and while I am not very attracted to "meant to" ideas or destiny (although I do see absolutes creep into my language, which scares me sometimes)
What does it mean to to be ourselves, I really like what sky said "If we feel that the natural world should be able to be what it is, then how are we not part of that ourselves, and why should we not be what we are"
but that's trickier than it sounds. What are we in a landscape that is changing quickly and a cultural context that is quite isolating?
Post a Comment