I know you must all see this on the regular news but thought you might want to be reminded.
By any interpretation of international law, Israel today is committing massive and egregious war crimes and crimes against humanity against the defenseless people of Gaza. It's doing it with the full support and encouragement of the US and willful compliance of the West.
Today during a ceasefire 2 UN drivers bringing releif were killed by Isreali bombs. There s photographic evidence of the use of deadly phosphorous bombs being used which are banned weapons.
Our government supports Israel.
I find these acts to be audacious. Everyday Canadian soldiers are coming home in body bags in a useless struggle in afghanistan. For what. Why arent we there defending those children. Who s side are we on. It makes me feel ashamed to be canadian. In fact, Im ashamed for humankind. My mind is glued to these transpirings and an overall gloominess pervades my everyday reality. I feel helpless to act other than trying to stimulate discussion.
Thursday, January 08, 2009
atrocity reminder
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30 comments:
Yes, it's horrorific. Bombing United Nations buildings and schools too...these people have been surrounded with wars all their lives, and these wars go way back into history.
This image stinks of propoganda to me, I wouldn't be surprised if it has been staged. Like a yahoo photo, to push a point, which need to be pushed. War affects everyone.
I agree. Yesterday I read in the Free Press that Israel defended it's bombardment of Gaza by citing the fact that Hamas rockets were being launched into Israel on a daily basis. Hamas' rebuttal was that their rockets were much weaker than Israel’s bombs!
The lunacy of even entertaining this debate about whose killing has more validity, due to the size of their bombs is mind boggling. It's like watching two kids fight in a sandbox but instead of throwing sand they’re murdering each other.
The sad reality is that the disparity in our world and the worlds of those living in war-torn countries has grown so great that we cannot even relate to these events in any meaningful way. We can be sad, horrified and empathic at the plight of these people but I think few of us can come close to understanding what life is like for them.
We can put down the paper, turn off the TV or the internet and go back to our daily lives. Even if we feel genuine sorrow for these people and our hearts ache at the seeming futility of this distance our existence is one of distraction: bills, jobs, friends, family, etc, etc. I sympathize with your frustration Andrew.
Verification: trict
Oddly fitting.
I am very glad I live in a place where people are not driven (by whatever rationales - I'm not taking any sides here) to kill each other on a mass scale. If I did live there, I would certainly do everything in my power to get out of there. Unfortunately, many do not have that option...
I just heard on cbc that a place was bombed recently, and four days later red cross workers tried to get into the area but the Isreal army turned them away. They say there were young children sitting wounded next to their dead mothers adn waiting for help. fuck war.
To me, in many ways, this is (see below) the result of well-intentioned meddling.
If you look at the history of WW I, in which the British and U.S. played political games with the Arab and Jewish world, the seeds for the present crisis was already sown long ago.
And then, of course, the history of WW II and the Holocaust (which the West conveniently ignored for most of its duration, with Soviet Russia being the only army engaged in any significant combat against the Nazis for almost the entire 6 years of the war) further exacerbates the situation, with the world's Jewish population feeling (with justification, certainly) that it is up to them to ensure nothing like the Holocaust ever happens again.
And then we have generations of Palestenians whose homes were bulldozed, whose daily existence is one of harassment, unemployment, security checks, and systematic racism. A guy I got a ride share with told me about his family in Gaza who wash their socks and underwear in communal buckets while, on the other side of the wall, literally 50 metres away, Jewish "settlers" wash their SUV's and lounge by their swimming pools.
So I have yet to ever be convinced that either side in any conflict is "right", or "just".
In fact, if you look on a map, and pinpoint resources (gold, oil, sea ports, etc), you can pinpoint the cause of almost every conflict in history.
Whatever rhetoric anyone ever uses to justify it, war seems to be always about one thing-- power, and the money that comes with it.
War, like power, is anthropological, we do the dance, whether we like it or not.
I read an article once called:
On the possibility of justice.
It argued that justice was not possible without violence, they are bound, just like the rings of power.
Can we ever escape this madness, I'm not so sure.
All I can say is that we sure are getting tired of this myth, which links us inextricably to the events of said region.
This, like us, is historical artifact.
As was said today, nature is coming, and she's angry.
And yes, f-ck war.
I think the best way to #*&%! war is to do something ...other than IT. Justice and violence may be strongly linked, as C-dog mentions with his Lord of the Rings comparison (rings of power?), but why are we so bent on adhering to the laws of "justice". From what you have all expressed about war I can see frustration, hatred, and anger are some of its vibes, even here, so far away from it. These are the very rhythms that perpetuate conflict. Looking for "justice" keeps the wheels of war rolling. If you have a couple random animals in the jungle and one gets eaten by a gator, it's not like the tortoises, monkeys and rabbits all start picking sides and go to war. If this concept of not retaliating became a widely accepted cultural rule, war would vanish. So, logically we should try to convince people to take it easy, and be utterly tolerant (by acting that way ourselves). Of course there would still be deviants, but we could smite them down in glorious righteous justice! Oops. This is going to be hard.
I noticed something in Cdog'z comment. He says "War, like power, IS anthropological, we DO the dance, whether we like it or not". That's present tense. It cannot possibly speak for the future, and with the vastness of time, gives us only a short little view. I know that a human race in motion is likely to stay in motion, but eventually (with the infinite in mind), who knows what will happen? I say we start working on the tolerance idea since were still here chatting. It will give Andrew something to do, other than following the mainstream media waiting for the apocalypse =P.
I hope the world can find love.
(don't laugh, or I'll...uh...make an angry comment?)
PS. Keeping Raccoons as Pets is wrong!
What's wrong with me?
Like yin and yang, like violence and justice, are also war and peace? Can we not have one without the other? Or perhaps, more pointedly, they spring from the same source.
Peace, living together in harmony, stems from the human drive to love and care for each other. So, then, does the desire to avenge those who are wronged and whom we love.
I, too, wonder if there is any other way?
What if NOBODY supported either side? Would they continue?
Probably? - but with less capacity for violence. It seems pretty clear that with less resources on both sides, the end of the conflict would have to come much sooner.
I think that when the death-injury tollscore is something like 3000-50, as it is in this War you should stop seeing it as a war and see it as a massacre. Placing blame more or less equally on both sides is exactly the problem with our governments official stance.
And for heaven s sake that photo is not contrived. The Gaza war is a childrens war.
And for heavens sake dave, Id appreciate enough respect to know that I absorb information from many sources, including the mainstream, and a wide range of counterstream, and even some nonstream. freshwater, saltwater.
The thing that seems to make this engagement different from other breakouts in the holy land is the blatant one-sidedness and audacious violence againts innocents. Remarkable also is that the press is reporting on it. Also the United Nation s stance is leaning more and more againts Isreal (maybe because their envoy drivers were tarketted).
The world, specifically “developed” countries are notorious for choosing their battles – much like Lorne was pointing out with regard to WWII. Take the 1994 genocide in Rwanda – or currently in Darfur, where bloodshed continues on a daily basis and the world turns a blind eye. These kinds of scenarios are happening all over the planet in underdeveloped countries right now, as we speak. I’m sure the actual number of atrocities, committed on a daily basis, is staggering. This is the disparity I was referring to. In places like those it really boils down to “who cares?” We’re talking thousands of people dying – but they’re nameless, faceless, poverty stricken and more than anything: expendable. I mean if you think Gaza is bad imagine what it’s like in places where there is no mainstream media attention! Law, justice, innocence and guilt – these terms are meaningless in many parts of the world where survival is probably a more apt principle to live by. Further, this gap between the have’s and the have-not’s is growing wider and wider every year. There are places in the world where homeless children run around in ramshackle streets, surrounded by corrugated metal and cardboard housing, or live in huge garbage dumps under the shadow of giant Coca Cola billboards…it’s unbelievable. It’s truly heartbreaking when you realize that issues like the one in Gaza, which make the 6 o’clock news, are nothing more than the very tip of the ice berg.
well Andrew, you're overlooking a central and ongoing part of this debate-- the fact that Hamas is clearly willing to sacrifice any number of their own countrymen in order to push an ancient political grudge.
i have nothing but sympathy for those who are caught in this conflict. and if i had to assign blame, certainly Israel bears the lion's share of it.
but Hamas, and much of the other leadership of the region, has consistently shown that they're willing to engage in unwinable wars against an enemy who has shown willingness to target civilians and infrastructure.
so, if stephen harper started a war with the U.S. tomorrow, against our will (because I don't believe the majority of Palestenians want war with Israel), and the U.S. came in and started slaughtering us willy-nilly in the streets, but Harper kept talking tough and launching rockets into the U.S., even as bombs were falling on our schools and workplaces and American soldiers were murdering us, wouldn't you say he deserves a big chunk of the blame?
i would.
to me, Israel is committing human rights violations and war crimes that compare to the worst cases imaginable. i think the Israeli gov't should be tried for war crimes--because they are nothing more or less than criminals on the worst scale.
but the fact that Hamas keeps baiting them into war, knowing what the results will be, and knowing they have no hope of defending their people from slaughter, raises some serious questions about their intentions and goals.
good call maximo.
it's weird what attracts our attention and what doesn't.
"And for heavens sake dave, Id appreciate enough respect to know that I absorb information from many sources"
I didn't mean to imply your sources were too limited, or any disrespect. I only meant to question your expectations, which I think are more common than you might think, and a big pert in the cycle. People feeling frustrated, with less and less hope, are more likely to step up to fight. This is just a personal theory that the best way to combat the atrocities is to not participate in them at all. I may be utterly wrong, but I was hoping that uncertainty would come out with my last comment, and that your desire to discuss it here is as valid as my blind eye (maybe more even), but really, I don't have any solutions, just vague and general theories. Sorry if that didn't come out right.
I just read an article that was interesting and seems to have a balanced perspective.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine/print
It seems clear, no matter what the perspective that war is not inevitable, there were countless opporunities to take a different path, even in this conflict; just as there is now a chance to make a decision that ends violence: from bombs to blockades, end it.
It takes a clear decision to say human life is more important than religious zeal, political perspectives and money.
just wanted to say tha while reading these comments, I noticed the veri word is Requi. Requiem?
re-quest? re-quiet? re-q...
also reading 1984. Who is the enemy this week: Eurasia or Eastasia?
huh...interesting. The next wordveri was this: boomb.
has someone rigged this thing? "f-cked" up.
wow. that last one is crazy...I think it's all rigged.
:)
This war on the people of Gaza isn’t really about rockets. Nor is it about “restoring Israel’s deterrence,” as the Israeli press might have you believe. Far more revealing are the words of Moshe Yaalon, then the Israeli Defense Forces chief of staff, in 2002: “The Palestinians must be made to understand in the deepest recesses of their consciousness that they are a defeated people.”
- Rashid Khalidi
The soldiers who commit such atrocities are no more guilty that you or I, as we are all just vehicles headed towards the same disaster, being ignorant and naive throughout the journey.
Dooooom! Doooom I tell you!
I don't feel ignorant, and you don't sound ignorant or naive about our journey. Maybe we will all travel its winding path feeling every bump from a unique angle, and really the disaster of not turning from the road (on the human species scale) is not so disastrous (on the individual scale). I will try to make my life count on behalf of those who didn't get the opportunity (as well as try not to kill anyone). The mind boggling existence I've been granted is a blessing not to be wasted. Also, this celebrates and consequently creates value for life. I am convinced hope can balance despair for a long time still. Memes, vibes, all that stuff.
Word Verif: dograph
i like where anonymous is going with this. i would even go as far as to say that we have a responsibility to be hopeful. the people who are trapped in earthly hells dream of having the agency that we take for granted. let's exercise our power to create positive change as much as we can, in honour of them. let's empower ourselves in their service.
we may all be headed for oblivion, individually and as a species, but so what? in a sense, giving up hope is a luxurious act.
hope IS our luxury.
I totally agree. was just in a bitchy mood and/or wanting to see what kind of a reaction I would get from blatant doom.
I'll also try not to kill anybody and to remain hopeful.
Interesting that, on an earlier post, SmkTgr, you argued for "just war" as taught within the Bagavhad Gita, and stated that peace wasn't always the ultimate objective, or even the ideal.
You also argued for a personal moral relativism in the "us neo-shamen need follow no one's rules but our own" argument.
So, who is to say that these soldiers are not following the principles of just war, or that they are not neo-shamen who need not follow the rules of others? Why must they follow the notions of peace and justice as you or others have dictated them?
Now... I don't believe this is a just war...
but isn't it contradictory that you insist on moral relativism when it comes to an assessment of yourself and your own actions, and then apply standards of moral absolutism when it comes to judging to others?
Wow, great discussion going on here! It’s been a while since I was involved in something this stimulating.
I’ve spent the entire weekend talking to people about this; particularly one Mr. J. Krahn, who had some fabulous insights – tempered by his barely controlled anger at the whole scenario. In retrospect I feel that my initial comments (although relevant on a cursory level) were slightly naïve.
This thing is far more complex then right, wrong, good, evil, just or unjust. We’re talking fatalism here that is tied to religion and based in religious history that’s thousands of years old. How do you reason with “this is our land because God gave it to us”?
It’s also another example of democracy and “Western” (I say western, even though the UN was involved, only because I think that the UN – on many levels – pushes a Western ideology) influence being applied in an area where it has no place. Why create a State of Israel in the middle of Arab countries that profess a hatred of Jews and then leave it to them to duke it out? Mind boggling. At the same time, how can a people who have been “robbed” of their land reclaim it thousands of years later? I mean, that’s what war is about – there has to be a loser right? It is also reflective of North American, Australian and African treatment of aboriginals; really, it’s reflective of the treatment of almost all aboriginal cultures under colonialism. If these aboriginal people had the means of modern warfare, would we be in a much different situation?
I find it hard to find a side to identify with. Historically in this conflict Hamas has been bloody and underhanded in all of its dealings with Israel – initiating the use of civilian targets yet simultaneously hiding behind their own people to generate global sympathy. Alternatively Israel, the most advanced military on earth, is notoriously heavy handed in their dealings with Hamas – using a shovel to swat a fly. When Hamas’ piddly rockets are flying into Israel to incite a behemoth that retaliates with excessive force, but says it will cease attacks as soon as Hamas does (and historically has upheld it’s word in that regard) who is in the wrong?
I read the newspaper, which reports 400 Palestinian civilian casualties versus 3 Israeli and can’t help but feel a hatred for the Israeli army. Yet, what IS the proper way to respond to forces that attack you unceasingly and have absolutely no desire to negotiate?
I also look at Israel and the Jewish people and think to myself; for a culture that has endured the most horrific cultural atrocity of the 20th century and survived, you’d think that would instill a cultural maturity and wisdom with regards to war-crimes and human suffering (or maybe it has instilled the opposite – a fear so deep that it provokes a disproportionate reaction).
I guess I’m really just spilling out my brains on the subject here. But I’ve been trying to wrap my head around it for the last few days and its still perplexes me. As a non-religious person I find death and suffering over land or faith-based ideologies hard to understand. I am also baffled by a willingness to endure such suffering in the name of faith or a sense of entitlement to land. I guess my mission to comprehend continues…
There are certainly a lot of things tied up in all of this...
I wonder, if all of the social networking stuff that we have now (this blog, facebook, etc.) had been available 7 or 8 years ago, would the U.S. occupation of Iraq have gone under the same kind of individual-level scrutiny? (Or, did it - and I was just not plugged in and aware?)
I remember that there were tons of civilian deaths in Iraq (in fact, many more) taking place in much the same manner as what's happening in Gaza right now - i.e. innocent civilians caught in the crossfire.
Again, I'm not taking sides here. I don't like what I see happening there right now, and I also have a good friend who is Israeli and whose family is living there right now (with teenage children who are soon to take part in mandatory military service, if they haven't begun to already).
I guess that, coming from where I live and have grown up, it boggles my mind that people can be so damned certain that they are right, that they are willing to take the lives of innocent people including children.
How anyone can feel that certain of anything, I don't think I will ever comprehend.
I think the certainty in some of these people comes from a long history of you kill me I'll kill you. Like if my dad, and his dad where both killed by Hamas, would I like a chance for revenge with a nothing to lose attitude?
I liked the shovel instead of a fly swatter comment. I just picture these tiny little rockets flying in and causing little explosions and then the massive Isreali explosions. This makes me think of something, but I can't place it. Maybe it makes me think of Rocky Balboa...sort of. but less herois, more futile, but with purpose. There must be a word for this...that seemingly futile retaliation just to egg the antagonist on.
Rope-a-dope? A tactic used to great effect by Rocky, The Raging Bull, and Ali! =P
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